An Interview with Paul Chen!

[Ron]

20070907 Fm The AusBlade Team

Paul Chen Interview.

Firstly let me thank Paul for taking the time to answer our questions and his staff at CAS/Hanwei for organizing this interview and letting us get to know the man behind the swords.

Paul, I believe your interest in swords started at a young age, how old were you when you first discovered your love of swords and were they Chinese or Japanese that first interested you? And when did you discover the Japanese swords?

Please let me say that I am happy to try to answer your questions. I am sorry that my English only allows for short answers, which I have asked my friend Barry Ross at CAS Hanwei to make more understandable.

My grandfather left some katana for me when he died. I had them from when I was four years old until I was eight years old, when someone (I don’t know who) found them and, I believe, sold them. I believe that losing those katana is one of the most painful recollections of my childhood but they started a fascination that is still with me.

I have heard you are a keen collector of nihonto; do you have a favorite time period, school or smith? And if so what features do you find the most attractive in them?

I have collected since I was a young man, when nihonto were fairly easy to find in Taipei, my home city. With age and experience I developed some knowledge of which pieces were more collectible and my tastes have changed over the years. I prefer older blades, maybe because of their rarity. If I had to pick a favorite smith (or line) it would be Muramasa.

What made you decide to start manufacturing your own swords? Were you already in the manufacturing business or did you have to learn the business from the beginning?
As someone that wanted some affordable swords and decided to do it yourself, did you foresee the success that the Hanwei forge would become?

I should say that there are many collectors who, like me, find that good antique swords are no longer affordable and affordable antique swords are not good. I think that I started to make swords partly because of this frustration and partly because it would give other people a chance to own affordable pieces which are worth collecting. I do not have a manufacturing background but I did a custom work for a long time before I started sword production with Hanwei. As for success, I am not sure how it is defined. We have been fortunate to make many friends and I hope that this will continue. I believe that hard work will bring rewards.


We have seen a steady rise in the quality of your swords over the years, is this due to new staff or continued training of existing staff?
How many staff are now employed in the Cas Hanwei company? Both in China and the US?

Dissatisfaction is a good motivation for improvement and experience is a great help. However, many tasks are very difficult and constant training and re-training are necessary, particularly in the forging, heat treatment and polishing areas. I am proud of our Hanwei family but there are many details where we are not as good as we should be, so we keep trying to improve. We have 350 people in total in the CAS Hanwei group.


With the acquisition of CAS by the Hanwei group you are now involved in the whole process from forging to selling the pieces, has the experiences at CAS changed or had implications on the forge side of things?

We had a good relationship with CAS for many years, so each of us already knew a lot about the operations of the other. The biggest advantage of merging the two companies has probably been the improvement in communication, as Hanwei now has a clearer idea of the market’s needs and CAS knows Hanwei’s capabilities better. We are now able to plan jointly, which is already resulting in some interesting new projects.


Your son Ron has been training with Yoshindo Yoshihara, which must have been a great honor and privilege for you both, you must be proud to have your son following in your footsteps. Can you tell us about how he came to study with Yoshihara and what that will bring to future Hanwei swords?

Ron is a dedicated person who learned how to distinguish a good sword from a bad one when he was young. After he completed his military service in Taiwan he came to the Hanwei forge in Dalian and studied with me for two years. Then he went to Japan to learn from Mr. Yoshihara, who I already knew. Ron is quiet and follows our family values. Many people have already asked him to forge custom katana for them but at this point he prefers to study further and improve his skills. He has made big contributions to Hanwei in the development of Tamahagane and Wootz and is working on other projects. Ron has a bright future and it makes me very happy that another generation will be able to continue to promote the love of the sword.

The installation of your own tatara for tamahagne is a big step for any company outside of Japan and the pictures of the Paper Crane daisho look most impressive. What prompted this decision and will there be more offerings in tamahagne in the future?

It has always been our intention to try to improve ourselves continuously, not only for our own satisfaction but to present swords that will bring satisfaction to others, so Tamahagane was a logical step. We also wanted to make a true Tamahagane available, rather than just a combination of two different production steels. Taking the step from prototype blades (made by Ron) to producing enough to meet the market demand is very difficult but we are making good progress. Certainly when the Paper Crane daisho meets our quality expectations we will work on other Tamahagane blades.

The L6 swords are another new direction for Hanwei, it seems you are embracing both the past with tamahagne and the modern times with L6, are these decisions due to customer demand or your own interests in the forging processes?

Our decision to work towards the making of L6 blades was certainly influenced by our wish to improve our heat treating capabilities but we were basically responding to a market demand. Interest in Tameshigiri is growing very quickly and this has created a requirement for highly resilient blades.

Do you think the market generally has become more educated and demanding about Japanese Swords?

The market has become educated about swords in general, and the demand for better swords is a natural result. For me this is wonderful, not because it is good for business but because swordmaking arts which, outside of Japan, were in serious danger of becoming extinct have been revived. There are now some excellent custom smiths working worldwide who, like Hanwei, are supported by a knowledgeable public.

Each new release seems more elegantly finished than the last, can you tell us how new items are decided on? For example how is the koshirae and shugata decided upon?
Do you have a team of designers or are they based on historical pieces?

We have our own design team, which receives a lot of assistance from experts and scholars. Additionally we are lucky to have a lot of historical information available to us. Of course, as some of our techniques improve we are able to produce better fittings, for which I am thankful.


Do any Hanwei/Cas staff keep an eye on the community forums? And does what is said on such forums get taken into consideration when thinking about new products or processes?

We certainly try to follow the forums, as we regard them as both an important source of feedback on our products and as an excellent indicator of market needs. We have several English speakers in Hanwei and we try to follow discussions, but now there are several forums and time and language limitations make it difficult. Blake Pogue at CAS is usually able to find and report on important discussions. He will also often post if something needs to be clarified.

The current market is filled with Shingoji-Zukuri due to it being the perception of the Japanese Sword, do you think there is a market to sustain other shugata and if so do you have plans to include a wider variety of shugata such as tachi, shobu-zukuri,kissaki-moroha , uno-kubi-zukuri or any additions to the pole arm range?

Although our emphasis lately has been on swords for the martial artist, we are certainly committed to supporting the collector section of the market. Our new Praying Mantis L6 blade is in the Shobu Zukuri style and we have been making a Shobu Zukuri katana and two Tachi for our good friends at Bugei Trading for some time. Although we have no immediate plans for new polearms we are working on an Odachi, which we hope to have available early in 2008.


Some time ago you personally designed and produced a series of 6 tsuba depicting famous daimyo which have been reproduced widely, I realize it would be very annoying but is there part of you that likes the idea you can personally design something that people want to copy?
How much say do you personally have into new products?

Many of our designs are copied, often by people who should know better, but this is life and to a small extent it is flattering. Of course if other people use the same historical sources as we do, it is their right. I am personally very involved in new Japanese and Chinese sword designs and prototype production. For Western-style swords, the designs are usually produced by CAS or Pieces of History in the UK, though as you know our latest project involves a design and development collaboration with Tinker Pearce.

It is refreshing to see a sword manufacturer offering items such as the war fan and jitte and we were very pleased to see the yanone released, have you considered offering yumi or any other non-sword items?

Thank you for this. We don’t have any plans to offer Yumi at present, as we do not have the necessary education or skills to attempt to produce good quality pieces. For other non-sword items we will probably produce more Yoroi as these have been very well received.

Recently you have begun collaborations with some of the leading US based European style sword smiths, I know a lot of people are very excited at being able to buy a sword designed by a leading name at an affordable price, is this something we will see more of in the future and are you free to tell us who we can expect to see work from in the future? Will we also be seeing more limited editions in conjunction with major re-sellers?

For several years we have watched the knife market move towards collaborations with well-known custom makers, and some of these collaborations have been very successful. We believe that with increasing consumer sophistication in the sword market, collaborations with top-level smiths can benefit everyone. Working with Tinker Pearce represents a serious commitment towards upgrading our Western-style sword line.
We enjoy working on limited editions as these bring in refreshing new ideas from other people. We certainly hope to expand this side of our business in the future.


The Cromwell and Charlemagne Saber are excellent reproductions of famous individual swords from history is this another path Hanwei will be following? If so can you give us any hints for future releases?

For the moment we are more inclined towards functional swords, but occasionally we see something that represents a landmark in sword history and we feel a need to reproduce it to the best of our ability. Certainly there will be others, though I don’t know yet what the next one will be.

In the time that the Hanwei Forge has been making swords there have been a number of models that are now discontinued and made obsolete, have you considered posting a "full catalogue" of Hanwei swords past and present to enable collectors to have a complete reference?

Thank you for your kind offer but I think that this would be an impossible task. The number of items produced over the years is very large and many of them have been upgraded several times. Unfortunately, we do not have good records of everything.


Finally of all the swords you manufacture, do you have a personal favorite?

I like everything, but I am not fully satisfied with anything. I am happy about this because it means that we will always be looking for improvement.


Again on behalf of the Ausblade forums, allow me to thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to answer our questions and we wish you continued success.

The AusBlade Team

Thank you very much. I am honored that you would consider it worthwhile to ask these questions. I very much appreciate this interest from Australia and your forum’s effort to promote the spirit of the sword.

With best wishes,

Paul Chen.

[Maro]

But will they make blades over 29 inches with Iaito like Tsuka?

[Glen]

Very good interview Ron,

Can I ask how did you go about organising it? and how was it done... ie e-mailed the questions, live over net, phone ?

Nice work mate

Cheers Glen.

[Ron]

Thanks Glen,as Paul doesnt speak english that well, we sent a list of questions and the GM of CAS/Hanwei went thru them and helped in the interpretation.We were very pleased he agreed to do the interview and it certainly gave us an insight into how Hanwei operate and the motivation behind the company.Cant wait to see the Odachi they have planned